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by Dave Scrimgeour & Kevin McCluskey   Cover Date- August 1988 Price- 50p Script- Gerry Conway Art- Sal Buscema Lettering- Rick Parker Colour- Bob Sharen Editor- Jim Salicrup Editor-In-Chief- Tom DeFalco Publisher- Marvel Comics synopsisSpider-Man and The Punisher realise they have a common foe in Tombstone, so pool their resources and form an uneasy, temporary alliance. However, Tombstone is all too aware of this association and uses Spider-Man's links to Peter Parker to strong-arm Mary Jane, whilst The Arranger springs a trap on a fatigued Frank Castle. (K) Dave Issue 141's tagline is, "Don't mess with the Punisher.” What's your impression of this? Kev It's alright. It seems like it's almost just an excuse to get that Punisher font on there though. Dave Yeah, it's not one of the better covers. To me, the only thing that stands out about it is the bright red background. Kev It's quite similar, compositionally, to the cover of #139, with Tombstone standing over the bodies, instead here we have Frank standing over a pile of his victims. Dave That's a good point. If you look at the perspective of those drawings, you could almost compare the height of these two characters. Kev You probably could as well. Good spot. Dave I do like the opening, full page again, with Spidey swinging into Manhattan's West Side Marina. Kev Yeh, man. It's a bit of a different setting here, down at the dock rather than the New York skyline that we're used to with Spidey. I love that second panel on page 2. Spidey's calf and foot at the top of it really sells the fluidity of his motion. Following on from the first panel on the page, you can almost feel the camera panning round from in front of, to behind him. It's great sequential storytelling by Buscema.  "Thank you for being a friend. Travel down the road and back again. You're heart is true. You're a pal and a confidant." Dave Yeah, I do like the whole change of venue for this scene. Like you said, a change from inner city New York. I'm wondering why the Punisher has a pale, white face like Tombstone. Was it a disguise or error in colouring? Kev You're right. He does look a little peaky in those panels. Maybe he's just run down. He hasn't had much sleep afterall. Dave When he takes his coat off, he seems to go back to normal though. His weapons display on the wall is a nice touch. Guess ole Punisher doesn't get too many guests. "Fair enough, I won't be taking you home to meet the folks either." Typical Spidey quip, right there. Kev Ha, ha! Yeh, that's a good line. The dialogue between Spidey and The Punisher is good here. It really conveys that uneasy mix of tension and begrudging respect between them. Dave Also, Spidey is one for nicknames, calling him "Pun."  Like an old, married couple, partaking in a bit of "How was your day?" conversation. Kev Which is awfully close to calling him, "Hun." Dave Haha. True. Yet Spidey could get away with that. Kev Yeh. Not many could. It must be the respect Frank has for him that allows him to get away with it. Dave There is a mutual interest in Tombstone here, which is probably why the two of them aren't trading blows at this point. Kev Definitely. They have a common enemy. Although, neither of them are being 100% transparent either. They're both still withholding information from the other. I like that Tombstone refers to Roland Rayburn as 'Persuader' now. It must be his official title at this point. Dave Yeah and Tombstone's henchmen are calling him "Mr. Tombstone" as well. The panel with them sitting in the car boasts some pretty dodgy looking guys and even dodgier haircuts. Especially the driver. Kev Some dodgy tashes too. Yeh, don't call him "Mr." He'll break your legs. Spidey's quip about Tombstone goes down like a lead balloon with Frank. Know your audience, Pete. Read the room. Dave Yeah, I like the composition in that panel with Spidey perched atop a table and Punisher checking his weapons. Kev I love that panel. I love that type of pose for Spidey. So much of Spidey's character is in his body language for me. I'm really liking Sal Buscema's interpretation of The Punisher as well. It's angular, it's muscular, it looks solid. Cracking stuff.  Ouch! Awkward. Dave I like his interpretation too. Again, there's a fair bit of dialogue between these two, filling in the blanks of the plot as well, with the references back to the pool hall scene etc. I like how Punisher says, "Getting out before you could catch me wasn't easy. But I learned to hide in the Nam.....Of course New York isn't the Nam. Here there are a lot fewer trees." Kev Yeh, man. That line is brilliant. I love how Frank is so po-faced and humourless, he's actually really amusing. Which makes him a prime target, or at the very least, a foil for Spidey and his quips. He's the perfect straight man. I also like how Frank essentially fills the reader in, performing a bit of an exposition monologue, letting us know that it's him who has been shadowing Peter and Spidey this whole time. And we also get to see that when he was snooping in the hospital, he was in his full Punisher get-up. Not at all conspicuous, Frank. Dave Yeah, master of disguise was ole Frank there. Some good pearls of wisdom from The Punisher about tactics and human behaviour again, "People who feel more vulnerable tend to be more forth coming." Kev Good point on Frank's tactics. It's interesting that these are exactly the sort of things that are used against him later with Persuader. "We're not exactly allies, you and I, but at times we share a common interest. I decided this was one of those times." Peter and Frank's relationship in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen. I also like Frank's "networking." That's "networking" I could get behind. Dave Yeah, they kind of agree to disagree. "Have a nice day Pun. Don't let your shorts ride up". There is a more light-hearted side to Spidey in dealing with people. Kev Compared to Frank, definitely. Conway is writing this like a Western. There's a lot of "dawn" & "sundown" at play here. Did none of these guys have a Casio in New York by 1988? Interesting that Tombstone views Spidey as a challenge more than anything else. He's one self-assured individual. Extremely confident in his abilities. Dave That's what makes Tombstone a good choice of villain for this story. He makes for a formidable opponent. Kev Definitely. And at this point he's still an unknown quantity, as this is his first run in the comic. It's a big part of what builds the tension and has us looking forward to the inevitable showdown between him and Spidey. But we have to wait until next issue for that. Dave Yes, we do. Tombstone's henchman, the one that's sitting next to him, takes the biscuit for cheesiness. With that moustache he could have easily been related to Alaric from 'Circle Of Blood.' Kev Ha, ha! Yeh. Maybe he's a distant relative. Nice pulling focus on Urich with that close-up when's he's questioning Robbie in his hospital bed. It show's just how intense he can be.  "Cigarette?" "Yes, I know." Dave Yeah, the hospital scene with Robbie and Ben is two old-school journalists not backing down to each other. Kev Definitely. Two wiley old veterans going head to head. It's an interesting scene. It adds another strand to the plot, with Urich sniffing around the Robbie/Tombstone relationship. Dave Robbie Robertson is a broken man in this scene. More mentally than physically and that's saying a lot considering he's confined to a hospital bed. Kev Yep. The fear of Tombstone has consumed him at this point. "In his heart, he is already a dead man…" I'm loving Frank making his bacon, with that big smile on his face. Is he so pleased 'cause it's bacon and he's about to eat it, or is he pleased that he's about to inflict pain on somebody and burn that guy with the oil or fat? And then just launch the frying pan at the other guy?  C'mon, Frank. You look like you know a bit about nutrition. Think about the nitrates. That's it. Just throw it away. Good boy. Dave Yep, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get this on Jamie Oliver's '15 Minute Meals.' A quick bacon sannie!!! Punisher style! Kev "Just whack it in his face. Bosh!" Dave And he maintained his dignity too. That towel stayed put. Kev Ha, ha! Yeh. The sexy, just out of the shower look. Nothing like it for when you're taking-out goons on a boat. Dave That's a good panel where he wastes the two guys on the rooftop. Classic Punisher. Kev I love that sequence of panels. They each look gorgeous and the storytelling is spot-on. I love that the bodies just fall over into the river as well.  Holy rooftop, Ba…..! Sorry. Wrong vigilante. Dave In the panel where he grabs the guy, he looks like he's turning into the Hulk. I mean, I know Frank's meant to be a pretty big guy but….. Kev Yeh. He looks huge. Crazy definition on his clavicles too. Dave The clocks and the time are cleverly used here to draw us towards the conclusion of the story. Kev Ah, true. I hadn't really taken any notice of that, but you're right. It gives us a great timeframe for the events of this issue. Dave It's slowly building the tension. Also, we get a bit of an insight into MJ and how she hides herself behind this carefree image of hers, as she does not know how to handle her fear of what could happen to Peter. Kev Indeed. Conway is using MJ to bring the soap opera theatrics to the story again. Which is interesting, considering how she goes on to become a soap opera actress in the not-too-distant future. I do like a healthy dose of drama in Peter's personal life too. Her loneliness within their marriage is an interesting concept though. They're both holding back their feelings, or the severity of their situations from each other. Perhaps not the best foundation from which to start building a young marriage. Little bit of a mirror between the relationship between Spidey and The Punisher. This is obviously a common theme for Peter. Dave Also it explains how she can appear pretty insensitive at times and just comes out with stuff that she shouldn't say. Kev Yeh, man. Like she says, she hides her secret terrors behind her old fashion model mask. Dave Pete and MJ must be living well, what with the traditional concierge in their building and all. Very 80's. Kev Ha, ha! Yeh. Peter's definitely moved up in the world from his humble beginnings in Forest Hills. Being married to a top model obviously has its perks. Dave Do you think Tombstone quickly took out the concierge or just walked past without any problems? Kev Quickly took him out. Probably just gave him a slap. How did they get that guy snorting coke past the Comics Code? It's clear as day.
Dave Haha, right enough. Censorship was certainly less of an issue in those days. Nowadays there would be an uproar about it. Kev You're right. You'd never get away with that now. Someone at the Comics Code must've been asleep at their desk that day. Dave The expression on that guys face when he pops it is something else. Kev Ha, ha! Yep, he's a gonner, alright. Dave At this point they decide to bring up the fact that The Punisher has been awake for 36 hours plus, thus clouding his judgement. Mmm, as if to say, 'This is why Frank gets caught here,' 'cause he never went to bed. Kev Yeh. Frank definitely screwed-up because of his lack of sleep. Nicely choreographed fight scene between Frank and Tombstone's hired guns, despite Frank being a bit on the weary side.  Frank get's a two-for-one BOGOF on the ol' pistol whipping. Dave Then straight into MJ's encounter with Tombstone. I like the look of anger in her face when Tombstone appears in the mirror. She puts up a good struggle. She's certainly no damsel in distress. Kev Definitely not. MJ's no shrinking violet. Unfortunately though, she's been in this position before, which she aludes to, with Venom, for example. I like Persuader's costume. I have vague recollections of drawing it and probably ripping it off for a character I created when I was young.  "Bring out The Gimp." Dave Persuader kind-of reminds me of Storm Shadow from Cobra in 'GI Joe/Action Force.' Kev The white body suit look of Persuader is certainly similar to Storm Shadow, right enough. Dave I like the brutality of The Punisher fight with Tombstone's henchmen. I wonder if 'Circle of Blood' helped to forge the writers and artists take on that scene. Kev It might very well have done, actually, yeh. 'Circle Of Blood' definitely redefined The Punisher, so was probably a massive influence on how he was depicted here. Which must've been an interesting process for Conway, considering, at this point in time, he's writing a re-defined version of a character he created. Dave The final page sets us up so well for the long awaited confrontation between Spidey and Tombstone. Kev It really does, doesn't it? Tombstone has crossed a line by putting his hands on Mary Jane, so as far as Peter is concerned, the gloves are off. Dave Spidey doesn't really have any action set-pieces in this one. Kev He doesn't at all. The focus is on The Punisher here, as far as the action is concerned, but it still manages to set-up the next issue very well. Although, I do feel like it kind-of just ends in the middle of a chapter of the story. Dave Did you ever see the Batman 1949 movie serial with the main villain called The Wizard? He had similar trick that the Persuader does with his eyes here. Those last couple of pages put me in mind of that. Kev I did, but it was probably in '89 when they repeated it on TV due to the Batmania at the time, so my memory of it is virtually non-existant. Dave I've just noticed Peter's hands have gone a bit like a goblin's when he's running to MJ. Cut your fingernails Pete! Kev Ha, ha! Yeh. He has bony, witchy fingers. Dave That final panel of Robbie just shows utter despair and helplessness. Kev And guilt too. Tombstone is now starting to hurt those around him, and those close to them too and Robbie blames himself for this. Dave I really like this issue, it covers a good range of characters. In fact it's a bit of a plot driven story for this issue, setting everything up nicely for the big showdown next issue. (D) & (K) Next: 'And One Will Fall...' 
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