Batman (1989) Retrospective-Act 3

by Dave Scrimgeour and Kevin McCluskey

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Warner Bros. presents
A Guber-Peters Company production
A Tim Burton film

Jack Nickolson
Michael Keaton
Kim Basinger
"Batman"
Robert Wuhl
Pat Hingle
​Billy Dee Williams
MIchael Gough
and Jack Palance

​Editor- Ray Lovejoy
​Production designed by Anton Furst

Songs by Prince
Music score by Danny Elfman

Executive Producers-
Benjamin Melniker and Michael Uslan
Co-Producer- Chris Kenny

Based upon Batman characters created
​by Bob Kane (****and Bill Finger***)
And published by DC Comics

Story by Sam Hamm
Screenplay by Sam Hamm
​and Warren Skaaren

Produced by
​Jon Peters and Peter Guber
Directed by Tim Burton

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---

Kev
Yeh, the bit with the fainting and stuff there, it’s kind-of hokey.


Dave
It’s quickly covered up though, you know what I mean?  There’s not too much of that slapstick style stuff.  There’s just a little hint of it and then it quickly goes back into the story again.  I know what you mean though, there’s just hints of…..


Kev
…..that really campy stuff that defined the 60’s show.


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
Robert Wuhl’s selling the empathising with Bruce’s tragic past well here.


Dave
Definitely.


​Kev
And here we see the batsuit in the vault.  Have you any idea why they added the extra bits into the emblem on the suit?

"I'll put it in the vault."

Dave
What’s that in regard of?


Kev
The way it’s got the extra little kick-outs on the tail.


Dave
Oh, them.  I don’t know.  Probably just a costume designer thing.


Kev
Yeh.  I suppose so.  That’s Alfred giving it the, ‘I’ve been in this family a long time.  Served your dad before I served you’ sort of thing when he says the "Or their sons" line.  And this is a lot of what The Joker does in ‘The Dark Knight’ as well, with the hijacking…..


Dave
…..of media.


Kev
Yeh.


Dave
Nolan probably did look at this one and think, ‘There’s a lot I can take from this.’


Kev
He probably did.  He used a lot of the same ideas and just took the camp out of them really, didn’t he?  Tried to ground it more in reality.


Dave
Yeah, he did.


Kev
20 million in cash.  I suppose that’s one way to get people to show up to your party.


Dave
Haha!  “Don’t worry, I’ll be alright.”


Kev
“I have taken off my make-up.  Let’s see if you can take off yours.”  Good music cue coming up here.


Dave
Yeah, I always remember that one.  It’s setting the film up for the final act.

Look up to the ceiling. And to the left. Now to the right. And finally down to the floor.

​Kev
Definitely.  This just got very real for Bruce.  He’s put two and two together, he realises that this is the guy that killed his parents, it’s gotten very personal now.


Dave
And the other thing is; they’ve waited until now to give you the origin.  They didn’t start the movie with Bruce’s parents being killed.


Kev
True.  How far in are we, at this point?


Dave
We are one hour and twenty six minutes into the movie and we are finally getting the origin.


Kev
So three quarters of the way through.


Dave
Yeah.  That’s clever, that they don’t just start off with the origin, you know what I mean?


Kev
Yeh, you’re right.  They didn’t front load it with all of this.


Dave
And the fact that it fits nicely into this part of the story, because you’ve kind-of forgotten about it.  You just assume, if you know Batman, that the audience know the origin, but this is for the people who don’t know how Batman came to be.


Kev
And the thing is, in 1989, it’s wasn't like it is now, where it's been shown on screen so often, that EVERYBODY knows the origin of Batman.


Dave
And every story seems to have the origin of the character at the start.  I mean, come on!


Kev
I know what you mean.  At this point in time, they probably don’t need to do this in another Batman film, at all.


Dave
Yeah, because people know the story now.  But it’s nicely slotted in here.


Kev
Yeah, you’re right, man.  It makes sense, in terms of the story they’re telling here, that we have this flashback at this point.

Look at young Bruce Wayne, rocking the flat cap. Hipster douchebag.

​Dave
I like the camera angle they’ve employed here to give it that edginess.


Kev
Definitely.  It gives it that distorted memory, feel.  What do they call this camera technique?  Is it dutch-angle, or something?


Dave
Yeah.  It’s definitely dream-like this sequence.


Kev
Now who did the thing with the pearls first?  Was it Frank Miller in Year One?

Either Thomas or Martha Wayne is a cheap bastard for buying this knock-off pearl necklace.

​Dave
I dunno.  I also don’t know who this actor was, but for a while I was convinced it was Vincent Kline from ‘Cyborg.’  He’s a wee bit similar to him.


Kev
Yeh, right enough.  He’s got a nice Joker-esque grin.  “See you around, Kid.”  That’s almost the “See you around, buddy-boy” from ‘The First Power.’

"See you around, buddy boy."

Dave
Yeah.  ‘The First Power.’  That was a good film.  Have you watched that recently?


Kev
Yeh.  I got it on Blu-ray when they reissued it recently.


Dave
Haha!  They’ve done it on Blu-ray?


Kev
Yeh.


Dave
Jeff Cober.  He was good.


Kev
He's great in it.  Creepy as all hell.  It’s funny how Alfred just goes into business for himself here.  It’s like he’s thinking, ‘I’m not even discussing this with you anymore, I’m just bringing her here to show her everything.’


Dave
Haha!  Yeah.  I like the fact that they’ve taken the time to build a set for the Batcave, at least.  And it looks quite good.


Kev
It certainly does.  I'm not so sure about Bruce’s line in turtlenecks though.


Dave
Yeah.  Very ‘80’s that.  More Milk Tray-Man that Batman.


Kev
Ha, ha!  Yeh.


Dave
“All because the lady loves Milk Tray.”


Kev
Ha, ha!  He’ll be swimming out to a yacht in a minute.


Dave
I know.


Kev
This is VERY melodramatic, all this.  “I’ve tried to avoid all this, but I can’t”  Although, I do like the “It doesn’t have to BE a perfect world.”  And the “I’d like to, but he’s out there right now, and I’ve got to go to work” line’s good as well.  So maybe I just like a bit of melodrama.


Dave
He’s just so focused on this, isn’t he?


Kev
Yep.  And this is always the problem for him.


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
Nice head tilt there.

"It's the Lex Coups, Bimas & the Benz. To all my ladies & my men. To all my peoples in the pen, keep your head up."

​Dave
That was used all the time in the promotion as well.  Without the annoying Joel Schumacher bum shots.  What the hell was all that about?


Kev
Yeh, it’s weird that, after them making such an effort to get away from ‘66 with this, Schumacher just went right back to it, didn’t he?


Dave
He obviously didn’t know what to do with Batman.  It was actually worse than the 60’s one.  The 60’s one is good because it’s…..


Kev
…..a comedy.


Dave
Yeah.  Whereas the Schumacher ones were comedies unintentionally.  Or he tried to make them comedies probably, but they weren’t funny.


Kev
No, you’re right, they didn’t work as comedies at all, did they?


Dave
No, no, no.  They were that bad, they were funny maybe, but after a while they weren’t amusing, they just became tiresome.


Kev
Yeh, they were a one note joke, and after a while you do get sick of them, definitely.  I do like the Batmobile going through the explosion here.  It still looks great.


Dave
Yeah.  Batman has totally demolished Axis Chemicals.  This is a big “Screw, You” to The Joker.


Kev
Totally.  He’s gone right into his home and dropped a bomb in it.


Dave
Yeah.  I like the music here as well.


Kev
Me too.  And then…..


Dave
…..Batman’s not even in the Batmobile.

Driverless Batmobile; it's the future.

​Kev
Yep.  It’s all the remote stuff.  Now, by the way The Joker says “Missed me” here, does that mean that Batman’s intention was actually to kill him?


Dave
Hmmm, I dunno.


Kev
Little bit more of the Prince soundtrack here with ‘Trust.’


Dave
Did you ever have the ‘Batman’ soundtrack?  I’m sure I did.


Kev
I don’t know if I did, but I listened to it again recently and it still sounds great.  I always kind-of thought that, this bit here with the money, really showcases the people of Gotham City’s greed.  It’s almost hard to feel sympathetic for these people because they’re so greedy.


Dave
Yeah, yeah.  It’s that greed of the big city, sort of thing, isn’t it?


Kev
Yeh, true.


Dave
I’m surprised that, with all these fake notes falling from the skies, none of them have noticed.  I mean, are they that stupid?


Kev
You’re right, they do hold off on that reveal a little bit too long.


Dave
See this is a bit more modern looking now, isn’t it?  With the costumes of the general public.


Kev
Yeh, it is.


Dave
The mixture of the wardrobes.

"Everybody's got a price. Everyone's gonna pay."

Kev
Definitely.  I wonder if Jack Nicholson was actually dancing to ‘Trust’ at the time of filming this, if they had that song locked in, so that he knew exactly what he was supposed to be dancing to, or if they just used a temp track on the day?


Dave
Or it could be one of those instances where there was no music and he was just told that this was going to be a dancing scene.


Kev
Maybe.  Batwing!

"Your bullets cannot harm me. My wings are like a shield of steel."

Dave
As he approaches Gotham.


Kev
Even the microphone The Joker is using to address the people of Gotham is an old, vintage microphone.


Dave
Yeah.  Haha! “Washing his tights.”


Kev
That bit there, with the upshot of the Batwing flying over, that’s very ‘Batman: The Animated Series,’ isn’t it?  I wonder if they saw that and took it as a template for the visual style of the cartoon.


Dave
Probably, yeh.  When was ‘The Animated Series?’  ‘93 or so?


Kev
‘92, I think, yeh.


Dave
So after the second film.


Kev
Yeh.  Good use of the balloons as the dispersion device for the Smilex.  I always thought that was quite effective.


Dave
Yeah.  Is it real money he’s giving away, or is it fake money?


Kev
I always thought it was fake.  I think there’s a reveal coming up at some point here that shows that it has The Joker’s face on it, isn’t there?  ‘Cause he said earlier that he wanted his face on the one dollar bill.


Dave
Oh right, yeah.


Kev
I’m not quite sure what Knox was hoping to achieve here.  Rather than just driving away, he chooses to take the fight to the crowd.


Dave
It certainly doesn’t say much for Smilex, if a tiny bit of paper can stop it.  Other people are putting on gas masks, but Knox seems to be alright.

​
Kev
Yeh, see this bit here is something they definitely took from here and used it as part of the aesthetic for ‘The Animated Series,’ that cityscape.  Lots of shots of people falling here.

Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh.

Dave
Yeah.  Lot’s of miniature models too.


Kev
Yep.  And is this Alexander Knox taken-out for the rest of the film?  Is that it for him then?


Dave
Yeah, he’s doesn’t pop-up again between now and the end.


Kev
I suppose he's sort-of fulfilled his role.  I like the use of the claw on the balloons here.


Dave
This was another sequence in the film that was used on one of the levels of the computer game.


Kev
That’s right, you had to catch the balloons, didn’t you?


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
And again, this is just like ‘The Dark Knight Rises,’ but instead of the balloons here, there’s a bomb there.  I think ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ is pretty camp as well, to be honest.  If you watch it with the sound off and imagine the “Zap,” “Boom,” “Pow” effects, it starts to look a lot like the ‘60s TV show.  Only filmed mostly at night.  Mostly.


Dave
I liked ‘The Dark Knight Rises.’ 


Kev
Yeah, I quite like it too, but it’s the weakest of the Nolan trilogy, for me.  Exit Bob.


Dave
Yep.  That’s the thing with The Joker; even if you work for him, he could just turn on you.


Kev
Definitely.  And at any minute.  You’re taking your life in your hands working for him.  Or rather putting your life in his hands.


Dave
This bit here is a wacky moment.  I’m never sure about this shot here with the Batwing against the full moon.

Did they use a shoehorn to cut this scene into the movie, or what?

Kev
It’s a good visual though, isn’t it?


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
But you’re right, it’s a bit indulgent to say the least.


Dave
Yeah.  We’re all allowed are indulgences though, eh?


Kev
Ha, ha!  Yeh.


Dave
The little things like that aren’t really major.


Kev
No, not at all.  It’s not exactly a make or break thing for the film, is it?


Dave
No, because the consistency of the tone carries it.  If the film was completely dark and serious, then it might’ve been a bigger issue.


Kev
I agree.  This bit here, with the game of chicken between Batman and The Joker is exactly the same…..


Dave
…..as the scene in ‘The Dark Knight’ with Heath Ledger.


Kev
Yeh, except that Batman is on the Batpod instead of flying the Batwing.


Dave
Exactly.


Kev
And it's the same moral quandary for Batman, where he just can’t allow himself to kill The Joker.  Although, he maybe killed a few of the goons there with the bullets and the missiles.


Dave
This is funny when he pulls the gun out here though.  Look at the size of it.

Is that a gun in your pocket....? etc, etc.

Kev
Ha, ha!  Yeh. I always thought the expression Jack Nicholson pulls as the crashing Batwing flies past him here was funny too.


Dave
Again, great change of music by Elfman there.


Kev
Yeh, you’re right, as they’re changing scene.


Dave
Yeah, he goes 'down' with the change of scene as well.  It’s as good as the 'up' stuff, the higher energy pieces.  The lower energy stuff is just as good.


Kev
I hadn't thought of that until you pointed it out once we'd started watching, but I’d forgotten just how good the more subtle pieces are.


Dave
This stuff as well, the more cathedral style of music, is excellent too.


Kev
It’s like ‘Ghostbusters.’  I was listening to a podcast called ‘Beyond the Neon’ by Noel Mellor, and he spoke about how they took a lot of the techniques that they used for ‘Ghostbusters,’ in terms of marketing, and really just dialled them up to eleven for ‘Batman’.  With the use of nothing but the logo as the main image for the one sheet and the really poppy soundtrack, getting Prince to do it and stuff.  It’s a really interesting listen.  This bit, where he pushes the doors open is really good, but the way he falls into the pews here is weird.  It shows you just how injured he is from the crash though, I suppose.

"Hold the door."

​Dave
Haha!  The Joker’s little fold-away gun too.  Again, it’s a nice, dark kind-of visual tone to the movie, with the colours and stuff as well in the cathedral.  You know what I mean?


Kev
Yeh.


Dave
It’s a good set piece, to end the film in a cathedral.


Kev
It is, isn’t it?  It’s quite small in scale as well.  Compared to what we’re used to these days.


Dave
Yeah, it’s not like the other films where we’re going halfway across the city.  It’s a nice, contained, set piece to end it.


Kev
Yeh, and it’s what we were talking about earlier with the love triangle.  It’s just the three of them.  The Joker wanted all the attention taken away from Batman and he wanted Vicki Vale.  And he’s trying to get them both right here.


Dave
This is nice use of darkness, with the shadows and the like.


Kev
Yep, and the bell tower.  I liked this bit, with the use of the flower and the acid again.  That’s one way of making sure you’re not followed.


Dave
There’s going to be some amount of repair work on that, isn’t there?


Kev
Indeed.


Dave
I think it’s just those three now, isn’t it?  The Joker, Vicki Vale and Batman?


Kev
And the henchmen that turn up for the more physical stuff, as well.


Dave
Yeah.  Right enough.


Kev
I suppose they’ve always had it be the case that The Joker isn’t a physical match for Batman, haven’t they?


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
Little bit of foreshadowing for the Batsignal there.


Dave
Great expression from Keaton when he comes through there as well.

"Don't you open that trap door! 'Cause there's something down there."

Kev
Ha, ha!  Yeh.  He’s a little bit bloodied-up from the crash.


Dave
This clip was used quite a bit in a lot of the promo for the film, when Batman turns here.


Kev
I always thought that was brilliant the way they undercut this set piece here.  You’re expecting the big fight with the flippy, kicky guy and all Batman essentially does is put his hand out to defeat him.   It’s like Indiana Jones and the swordsman from ‘Temple Of Doom.’  Then, of course, the dance with The Joker and Vicki Vale, contrasted with the fighting between Batman and the henchmen.


Dave
Then this guy jumps at Batman and misses.


Kev
Right enough, that’s two instances of misdirection here leading up to the fight with this last guy.


Dave
And Batman gets a complete tanking off this guy.


Kev
Yeh.  I suppose they’re limited with how much fight choreography then can do with that suit, because it’s so rigid and doesn’t lend itself to movement at all.


Dave
No, it doesn’t.


Kev
Now, what film does him rag-dolling her around like this, pay homage to?


Dave
It’s got to be something.


Kev
You’re right, man, Batman’s taking a bit of a hiding here, isn’t he?  Nice knee by this henchman here, to finish Bats off as well.  Or so he thinks.  Again, a bit of foreshadowing for what will ultimately happen to ol’ Jack, with the goon falling down the bell tower.


Dave
I like this camera angle here.  It’s kind-of up close, and there’s plenty of ways for them to show what’s happening.


Kev
You’re almost right in there with the dance of the two of them, aren’t you?


Dave
Yeah.  Maybe it’s ‘Beauty and the Beast’ that this dance is supposed to be an homage to.

"Just a little change. Small to say the least. Both a little scared. Neither one prepared."

Kev
Y’know what?  You’re absolutely right.  Of course it is.  But if anyone else calls her "beast," he’s going to rip their lungs out.  Again, another callback to Jack saying, "If this clown could touch Grissom, I'd've handed him his lungs by now."  I always thought this bit was odd.  It’s so weirdly sexual, y’know what I mean?


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
Just kissing a coat.


Dave
Haha!


Kev
Kissing a suit jacket like that, it’s just strange.  “I love purple.”  Very suggestive.


Dave
“You idiot.”  Haha!


Kev
“You dropped me into that vat of chemicals.  That wasn’t easy to get over.  And don’t think I didn’t try.”  I love Nicholson's delivery there.


Dave
How does The Joker know he was a kid when he killed his parents, unless he knows Batman is Bruce Wayne?


Kev
Yeh, I don’t know.  And Keaton’s choice of delivery when he says “Have you ever danced with the devil, by the pale moonlight?” is an odd one, because he says it in Bruce Wayne's voice, not Batman's voice.


Dave
Yeh.  Maybe to let The Joker know.


Kev
Yeh.  True.


Dave
Or maybe it’s a continuity error that they never thought out.


Kev
Or perhaps there was a bit in the script that they didn’t film.


Dave
Or probably cuts, or something, yeah.


Kev
I do like this bit where he’s stomping on the old brickwork, trying to knock them loose.  That’s great.  It looks really good.  And again, The Joker with his own branded merch and everything.

Just go to Super Villains 'R' Us for all your branded merchandise needs.

Dave
Yeah.


Kev
If you still had one of those baseball caps now, you could probably sell it for a fortune.


Dave
Yeah, and the jacket as well.


Kev
The rope ladder is very Batman ‘66.  All you need is a shark there and a can of shark repellent spray.  In fact, The Joker helicopter is very Batman ‘66, as well.


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
Good piece of the score here as The Joker is slipping one rung at a time.  It really helps build the tension here.  They love villains falling to their death, don’t they?

Now where's your gargoyle repellent spray when you need it?

Dave
Yeah.  That was a very 80’s thing, wasn’t it?


Kev
Yeh, it was in everything, wasn’t it?


Dave
Hans Gruber.


Kev
The Emperor.  


Dave
Yep.


Kev
Skeletor.


Dave
Right enough, yeah.


Kev
Thingy.  What’s his name?  In ‘Robocop?’


Dave
Oh yeah.


Kev
Cox’s character.


Dave
Ronnie Cox.  Oh, yeah.  Dick Jones, is it?


Kev
Yeah, I think you’re right.  Dick Jones.


Dave
Pretty sure The Joker would be a bit more of a mess than that if he’d fallen that far but, y’know, it’s a twelve certificate.

It's supposed to just be your hand prints, Jack. You're not supposed to throw your whole body into the cement.

Kev
Yeah.  There was all this talk of them bringing The Joker back for future films at the time, wasn’t there?


Dave
The thing about ‘Batman Returns’ is, the script totally changed.


Kev
Right.


Dave
Completely changed.  Robin was supposed to be in it and he ended-up on the cutting room floor.  They wrote his story out completely.


Kev
See, that’s very Batman ‘66.  “We’ve received a letter from Batman.”


Dave
Yeah, you’re right.  That is very Batman from the 60s, isn’t it?


Kev
Yeh.  So, in terms of ‘Returns,’ other than needing a new love interest, why was Vicki Vale/Kim Basinger not in it?


Dave
I can’t remember what happened.  There was a whole story I read about it.  There was a lot that was changed during production.  The whole story for the film was changed.


Kev
I do like this shot, tracking up towards the rooftops.  That’s a pretty cool way to end the film, with the score rising towards a crescendo as well.


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
Properly setting up the franchise.


Dave
Yeah.  That’s a great shot, with him standing on top of the roof, isn’t it?


Kev
Yeh.

Exactly how would a Bat Signal work.

Dave
Credits.


Kev
Yeh man, it’s aged in some ways and it’s nowhere near as “dark” as we perceived it to be at the time.


Dave
Yeah, and story-wise there are some inconsistencies, eh?


Kev
Yeh, but it’s still got a lot of rewatch value.  It's still watchable, even 30 years later in 2019.  This is the first time I’ve rewatched it in quite a while again and it’s still enjoyable.


Dave
Oh yeah.  It’s definitely still watchable, isn’t it?  It’s one of the ones that you could go back to and watch again.


Kev
Yeh.


Dave
And again, the black background with the yellow writing for the credits.

“Black and yellow, black and yellow, black and yellow, black and yellow.”

Kev
Yeh.  Ah, superhero films before every one of them had to have a mid AND end credits scene.


Dave
Exactly, yeah.  I still think the OPENING credits to this are a great example of the films of the time.


Kev
Yeh.


Dave
And this was where you always got a little bit of the soundtrack for the films.  Plugging the soundtrack as well.


Kev
Prince was, in a lot of ways, quite a strange choice for the Batman soundtrack.


Dave
Yeah, he was actually.  It’s quite melancholic, isn’t it?


​Kev
In certain places, it really is, isn’t it?  And then in other places, you can see why he was a good fit, because he nails the flamboyance of The Joker stuff.  The video for ‘Partyman’ is great, when he’s got the half and half outfit, and the half and half face paint.  It’s brilliant.  But it’s certainly not dark and brooding.  Some of the funkier elements to his music lend themselves to it as well, I suppose.


Dave
Yeah, I can’t quite put my finger on why they chose Prince, but hey, it certainly works for the movie.


Kev
I suppose they went with him because he was such a multi-faceted musician and he was so eclectic in what he was able to produce all by himself, with the amount of different music genres he crossed over into, that you were able to get an eclectic soundtrack out of the one guy.


Dave
Yeah.


Kev
They never went with another single artist soundtrack again after this one, did they?  I mean, did ‘Returns’ even really have a “soundtrack” as such.


Dave
Yeah, Siouxsie and the Banshees.  Remember ‘Face To Face?’  But that kind-of suited the more gothic mood of that movie.  I remember that song being in the charts.

The value of these apartments plummeted once Commissioner Gordon pointed the Bat Signal in their direction.

​Kev
Right enough, yeh.  And then by the time you get to…..


Dave
…..’Forever,’ you’ve got U2…..


Kev
…..with ‘Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me.’


Dave
I don’t know about ‘And Robin.’  I can’t remember what was on the fourth one.


Kev
I think by the time you get to ‘Batman and Robin’ they’d just given up.


Dave
Yeah, they’d lost interest by that point.


Kev
I think you’re right.  Which is weird because the soundtrack for ‘Forever’ apparently sold more copies than this one.


Dave
Yeah, it probably did….


Kev
….because it had those two big hit singles on it, with ‘Kiss From A Rose’ by Seal on it as well.


Dave
Oh, that’s right, yeah.  Here’s another thing; these credits have been going for about ten minutes.


Kev
Ha, ha!  Yeh.


Dave
You’re watching a movie and there’s ten minutes left and it’s all credits.

​
Kev
Yep.  And they go on for even longer these days.

The end.

(D) & (K)

"Pow!"