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by Dave Scrimgeour and Kevin McCluskey   Writer- Steven Grant Penciller- Mike Zeck Inker- John Beatty Letterer- Ken Bruzenak Colourists- Mike Zeck Ian Tetrault Phil Zimmerman Designer- Robbin Brosterman Editor- Margaret Clark Consulting Editor- Carl Potts Editor In Chief- Archie Goodwin synopsisFrank finds himself caught in the midst of an arms deal in the middle of the Nevada desert, which inadvertently leads him back to a figure from his distant past, and presents him with an opportunity to avenge some losses. Dave So, ‘Return to Big Nothing,’ and a return to Steve Grant and Mike Zeck for us. When was this published? Kev It was either 1988 or 1989. My copy is a second printing, and it's from 1989, so I reckon it might first have been published in 1988. Dave The cover is great. The Punisher is looking mean, and deadly. The black background intensifies the mood, and also the darkness of this character. And he's sporting a slight teddy boy haircut to boot. Kev Ha, ha! With the widows peak going on as well. Yeh, it's a cracking cover. Frank's looking bodybuilder-big here. Lots of protein, and very little cardio, I would assume. Dave It's always a good start, having an eye catching cover. Kev Definitely. You don't need much more than that image of Frank to sell me on this. Bit of an unusual font though. Maybe they were trying to make it look less like a comic book, and more like a proper, grown up book, so to speak. Dave I like that the font is not taking over the page. The image of Punisher says it all really. It was probably done that way on purpose. Kev I would imagine so, yeh. Do you see this as a direct sequel to 'Circle Of Blood? Dave I see it as an unofficial sequel. It kind-of can be construed as a sequel, I suppose. Sort of season 2 of a series. Do you? Kev Yeh, I do. It'd be cool if that, as soon as he was done with Angela on the bridge in 'Circle,' he went almost straight into this within a matter of days, but I reckon there has been a bit more of a passage of time. As you say, almost like the gap between seasons of a TV show. Dave I love the internal narration that we get from Frank at the start of the story, and it is a proper good splash page panel as well. It gets us right into the thick of it. Plus, some very deep philosophies from Frank here. Probably not a good idea to try them out at an open mic night though, might scare the audience a bit. Kev Agreed. I love the narration of the inner monologue, but yeh, not exactly comedy gold, is it? And is it just me, or has Zeck drawn Frank to look ever so slightly like Dolph Lundgren on that splash page?  That costume might need a quick wash after this mission, Frank. Dave Good point, I never really picked up on that Lundgren thing. He does seem a bit different from 'Circle of Blood.' Kev Definitely. There is certainly a feeling of the character having evolved somewhat since 'Circle.' Or perhaps even devolved. He seems even more clinical, detached and robotic than he did in the previous outing. Dave Straight off the bat, the bad guys have just made a classic 'A-Team' style mistake of locking him in a truck with an arsenal of weapons, or more likely he has snuck in without them seeing but, either way, you know it's not going to end well for them. I like how the panels pan out a bit from the first page, but Frank is still in darkness. Kev I like the way it opens up as well. Yeah, I got the impression that he had just stowed away in the back of their truck, knowing full well it contained a load of ammo. Then it cuts to the searing heat and blinding sunlight of the desert. Is it the Nevada desert? Dave Yeah, and it's also good that the story just starts, right in the middle of something. The artwork is great here, as is the pacing of the story too. And it's the set up of a scene that usually helps the execution of delivery. Kev I like that we're just dropped into the middle of the story as well. It's a classic writing technique. Dave "I am death. All roads lead to me." Kev Death is certainly all over this book, yeh. Which isn't surprising, really. Considering our "hero" wears of massive, fuck-off death skull on his upper body. Dave It's a heavily armed scenario. Kev Yeh, Frank is certainly getting himself well tooled-up before he comes out, all guns blazing. Dave And from the looks of it, there are a few players involved, what with the guy hiding behind the rocks and everything. As the reader, you're kind-of just trying to figure what is happening in the space of the first few pages. It's setting up that something is definitely about to go down. Kev It's a set-up alright. In more ways than one. The story isn't just opening up visually, it's also opening up narratively as well. Dave I like the panel of Frank hiding behind the boxes, when the doors are opened to the truck. "Cambodians..interesting.” His narrative is so essential to the Punisher. It adds to his depth, and makes him a more multi-layered character.  "Guns. Lots of guns." Kev Definitely. It's a cracking panel, alright. First person narration within caption boxes is a technique that has fallen out of favour in more modern comics, to the point that it's looked down on, but it literally puts us inside Frank's head here, and the story is all the better for it, I reckon. It's like an old noir movie, with the PI's voiceover helping to set the scene as well as build the character. Or Deckard's in that much maligned cut of 'Blade Runner.' But the less said about that, the better. Dave The panel where the FBI guy walks out from behind the rocks waiving his badge, looks like he has just turned up to a party. "Hi guys. I'm here," sort of thing. It works well, as it is drawn like a long distance shot. Kev It's an excellent composition from Zeck. A proper Mexican standoff in the desert. Like an old western movie. Or 'Reservoir Dogs.' Or 'City On Fire,' even.  "Larry, stop pointing that gun at my fucking dad!" Dave And while this is happening there is still narrative to show Frank's surprise, "What the hell?" Kev Ha, ha! Yeh, Frank kind-of stumbles into a bit of a shit-show here. Dave In the space of a few pages, the pace of the story has quickly picked up, and we have gone into a full-on shoot out. Kev Yeh, Steve Grant is wasting no time, or comic book page real estate here. Like you said, start in the middle, and boom, right into the action. Frank shows that he has very little respect for the Feds here, referring to them as "amateurs." Dave The pacing is great, I agree. It suits The Punisher. Yep, Frank gets a bit philosophical here, before bursting out the truck to engage in an onslaught.  ".....are a British boy band from London consisting of members Sean Conlon, Ritchie Neville, and Scott Robinson." Kev Yep. Frank's Art Of War philosophy. And we get an example of his questionable morality, in that, if Frank is stealing guns and money from criminal organisations for his “war,” is he really any better than those he’s dishing out his brand of justice to? Dave That's the thing, it's the morally ambiguous world of The Punisher. One of the things that I liked about the Netflix series, was that they dealt with that, and not all of Frank’s choices would be liked or agreed with. Kev No. And neither they should be really. Frank is not a "hero." I'm not even sure he's an "anti-hero" either really. I mean, I love Frank Castle as a character, but he is not exactly likeable, is he? Dave He certainly doesn't see himself as a "hero," he is just hellbent on wreaking his own justice on the shit of humanity. That's where his likeability comes from, doing what the law doesn't do, punishing effectively. It's that kind-of cathartic thing. The ethics of it usually come from conflicting characters, and how the readers perceive this type of character. It's genius, really. Kev That's a good point. It's that release of living vicariously through a character that is willing, and able, to do the things that we either can't, or could never bring ourselves to, do. Dave Essentially, that's what it comes down to. Kev I like Frank's countdown to the explosives, prematurely, going off. "Short fuse." You do have a bit of a short fuse, Frank. Yes. Dave In some ways, with having recently re-watched The Crow, I realise that they are both characters who fully understand their mission. However, Punisher does have more self doubts at times, like in 'Circle of Blood,' but in this story he seems to be more self assured. The panel of him shooting two guys at the same time is great, he's just a war machine when he gets going.  A stroll in the desert, Frank Castle style. Kev Ha, ha! Yeh. He's a machine, alright. This is something that has been drilled into him, his entire adult life. It's second nature to him. He does seem more self-assured here, doesn't he? I was thinking that as well. Dave Yeah he does, and the end panel on that page, with him carrying the injured Fed, and the explosion, is a great way to close off that set piece. Pace wise this story is moving along relentlessly now, with the narrative unfolding as we go. Kev Yeh, it's a great opening set-piece. It's kind-of like the pre-titles scene to a Bond movie, or something. It's definitely opened with a bang. Literally. And here we have the link, not only to the smuggled US Army arms, but also to Frank’s past and the Vietnam War itself, Gorman. Who doesn’t seem to have aged much at all in the ensuing years, despite his stressful occupation and his stomach ulcer.  "All those who remember the war, they won't forget what they've seen." Dave Yeah. I guess Gorman likes his daily moisturising and facial cleanses. Never let it be said that tough guys don't have a more sensitive side. Kev Gorman was metro-sexual before David Beckham made it cool to be metro-sexual. Dave So, when Frank finds out his old CO, Gorman, is involved in this, his first thought is, "Castle knew him," referring to his old self as being a completely different person. Kev Yeh, there's definitely a pre-family-being-gunned-down-by-the-mob, Frank Castle, and a post-family-being-gunned-down-by-the-mob, Punisher, isn't there? Dave Yeah. And also, we get the explanation of where the title 'Return To Big Nothing' comes from. Kev We do indeed. I like that "Big Nothing" banner between the two barracks. Dave Younger Frank looks like the alpha in the barracks, amongst his fellow soldiers. Just the way he is positioned in amongst them. It reminds me of an episode of M*A*S*H*. Kev Definitely. He's the focus in that panel. Jeez, y'know what, the M*A*S*H* thing never even occurred to me. Even after all this time, and having read this so often. Frank's youthful naivety is apparent though, both in his faith in US military superiority, and his prediction that once they get to Saigon they’ll end the war “in a couple of weeks.” Dave At this point he just wants to get back to his family life. Kev Does he have his family at this point? I always thought that this was before he met Maria and had kids. It wouldn't surprise me if I had just wrongly assumed this though. You know what they say about assumptions, and all that. Dave Yeah, he was married, and there was a baby on the way. Kev Ah, right. I completely misunderstood that. Makes total sense, now that you mention it. Dave He also seems quite hot headed, getting straight into it with Gorman and taking a kicking in the process, hence him becoming the title of the story, "Big Nothing." Kev Yeh, Frank commits like an impatient, inexperienced fighter here. Impetuous, charging straight in, winging punches, and he gets whipped as a result. He seems to be relishing the thought of a rematch now though. "Gorman. Good."  Frank misses with that overhand left, eats a knee and also a kick to the midsection when he's a downed opponent.  Gorman with the first round TKO over Castle. Dave Yeah sloppy fighting indeed from Frank. This Punisher reminds me more of the Jon Bernthal version, being that hot headed and impatient at times, especially in the flashback scene. Kev That's a good point. The Bernthal version of the character is like a volcano, constantly waiting to erupt. Dave The Punisher's morals have no effect on his ability to do his mission though, once the FED dies, he just assumes his identity. Kev Totally. Even in death, this guy is still useful. He's still an asset. Well, for a couple of days at least. Until the Feds realise he's dead, that is. Dave And I've just noticed, he's sporting the '80s' black eyeliner as well. Kev Yep. Gotta rock that sexy '80's guyliner. Dave Interesting that in the next page, as we see the technically older looking Gorman, he is actually unnerved by these events. That is, until he gets the file on exactly who this "clown vigilante" is, then he is grinning like a Cheshire cat.  Cracking set of veneers on Gorman. You must get dental cover as an arms and drugs smuggler. Kev Other than his hairline, he looks pretty much the same, and like he's still in good shape. Yeh, I love how Gorman’s concerns about The Punisher dissipate as soon as he realises that The Punisher is, in fact, his old punching bag, Frank Castle. Dave When he realises who the Punisher is, Gorman looks like Hannibal from 'The A-Team,' just with a smaller cigar. He just loves it when a plan comes together. Kev Ha, ha. Dave The flashbacks doesn't slow down the story at all, it has a great pace of storytelling. Kev Yeh, Steve Grant's plotting is excellent here. It all just clicks into place, and it feels so natural in doing so. It's pretty seamless. And Mike Zeck’s and John Beatty’s artwork on these Vietnam flashbacks is tremendous. It reminds me of Michael Golden’s work on the early issues of ‘The ‘Nam,’ which, of course, was the back-up strip in the previously mentioned Punisher Weekly comic here in the UK. That's probably why it reminds me of it actually, because they were so linked in my mind at such a formative period in my life.  "Destruction of men in their prime, whose average age was nineteen. N-n-n-n-nineteen." Dave Yeah I totally forgot about 'The 'Nam' until you mentioned it being in those old Punisher weekly comics. That was a great comic at the time. Kev Yeh, it's something I'd like to go back to and revisit properly at some point. Dave Gorman is getting really cocky now, referring to Frank as "Big Nothing," but I like that we already have a more than formidable adversary for The Punisher. And Frank has been put on point in the flashback here, to add further insult to injury and humiliation. This lends more depth to the character, giving him a more human and relatable quality. Kev Yeh, he's been put on point as a sacrificial lamb really, hasn't he? Although, he's a bit too good, and it doesn't quite pan out the way Gorman has hoped. Dave Jeez that cheeser of a grin needs to wiped off his smug, overly moisturised face. Kev Yeh, Gorman's like a L'Oreal For Men poster boy. Dave And I bet he thinks he's worth it. Kev Ha, ha! Dave In that flashback, Frank looks like he's had enough of the war and just wants out of it. Kev Yeh, already Frank has gone from being naively optimistic about it, to all too aware of how rotten to the core the whole affair is. Dave Gorman should team up with Alaric. Pair of cheesy bastards. Kev God, yeh. Gorman would've fit right in with The Trust. Dave Then, as it switches back to the present, Frank is doing his undercover routine as a FED, but he is clearly walking into a trap. He doesn't seem to know when these things run too easy, and that something is amiss. Kev I'd like to see Frank doing more of this kind of undercover business. I really enjoy it. Yeh. Frank thinks he's one step ahead of Gorman here but, unfortunately for him, it's the other way round. "There's always them who won't be beat." I like the fact that Gorman recognises Frank immediately, by his voice though. Dave The tide has turned quickly on Frank here, as he has clearly walked into a trap. But that's what I like about The Punisher, he is fallible, he does make mistakes, and he is probably lucky to still be alive with some of the mistakes he made. Kev Yeh, he's not BatGod. He hasn't planned for every eventuality in his head a million times. He certainly wouldn't be beating any Supermen, that's for sure. But you're right, that's a good thing. Dave I like that panel of Gorman, posing while waiting on Frank, reading the writing on the clipboard. Poster boy stuff indeed.  Gorman is like a walking, talking Wellman commercial. Kev Ha, ha! It is a bit of a catalogue pose, isn't it? Dave And Gorman proceeds to give The Punisher another beating, whilst enjoying every moment of reminding him of his previous encounter as well. Is Gorman actually physically bigger than Frank in this scene? It's hard to tell, as Frank is wearing a jacket. Kev He's of equal size, at the very least, yeh. Although, it's only when his goons jump in that he truly gets the better of Frank. Which Gorman's quick to chastise them for, despite the fact that he'd already made sure he had a distinct advantage by handcuffing Frank. I like the use of the empty caption box to illustrate that Frank’s thoughts have stopped suddenly, due to him being K.O.d. Dave Yeah, the blank caption is good. Something tells me a fair fight is not really what Gorman is interested in, more like having the odds stacked in his favour. Kev Definitely not. He doesn't like to make bets that he knows he can't win, that's for sure. The colours in this book, by Zeck, Ian Tetrault and Phil Zimmerman are superb. I'm not sure which of the three of them was responsible for the next scene, the one in the desert at night, but the palette is outstanding. The purples of the light in the desert sky at night are absolutely lovely. Dave Totally, the desert scene colours are superb, the shadows and background colours are excellent, and the story never falters. It has never gone off on any pointless tangents. It has stuck to its narrative without fault. Kev It's made crystal clear that Frank is still suffering from PTSD here. He’s constantly having flashbacks and nightmares about his time served in Vietnam. And that’s without taking into account the fact that he had witnessed his family being mowed down in the crossfire of a gang war in Central Park several years later as well. Dave Yeah well, the 'Nam was a big cause of PTSD in soldiers, so technically he has two lots of PTSD to deal with, I suppose. Kev Exactly. Frank has a lot of issues that he's dealing with. Or rather, not dealing with. Dave While the violence is quite brutal, it has been dealt with without making it gory, so it lends itself to this feel of a tough-as-nails type story. It's almost done tastefully, if you catch my drift. Kev Absolutely, I totally agree with you on the tone. It's tough, and it's gritty, but it never feels exploitative or gratuitous. It really does feel like a good '80's action movie. Dave And of course you get the token idiot who carelessly flings his matches near an explosive device in the backseat. Kev Ha, ha! There's always one, eh? Dave One thing about Frank is, never underestimate his ability to get out of a tricky situation of his own making. His skill set also saves his own neck a lot of the time. And don't bad guys know it's never a good idea to leave him unsupervised, for even a short period of time. Kev Yeh, you would've thought that his reputation would have preceded him by this point, wouldn't you? Dave I wonder if this was part of Gorman's plan, to not kill him directly. A kind of a test to see if he would survive this and come back for him. Gorman seems to like playing games, especially with one Mr. Castle. Kev Could be actually, yeh. I like Frank’s little comment on the American automobile industry, and the quality of its manufacturing in the late ‘80s. “...., construction’s weak.” That’ll be why so many Americans were buying Japanese or European, even back then. Dave Maybe he was preparing for a guest spot on Top Gear, with these wise points on the state of the automobile industry in America. Kev He would've fit right in during the Clarkson, May and Hammond era. Dave The panel after the car explosion, of the two kids grinning is good. They just look like such low level henchmen, straight out of henchman academy. Then we go back to Frank’s thoughts, as he deems them "amateurs," and points out their mistakes.  Yeah, "Nice colours." That's what we said too. Kev Yeh, they're definitely not the brightest, are they? Although, I really like the use of the light source of the car explosion on their faces in the colouring. Again, stellar stuff. We get Frank’s, Mr. Joshua bit here with him using the flaming car wreckage to cut the ropes on his wrists. But yeh, his disdain for the sheer incompetence of these low-level criminals is palpable. He refers to them as “amateurs” on more than one occasion here. Then again, Frank's referred to almost everyone as "amateurs" all the way through this story so far. Dave Right enough, he uses the fire to cut the ropes. Good thinking though, and of course, he is ignoring the pain at this point. Furthermore, he has gained another lead from the packet of matches. Kev Like I said before, I do like when Frank uses his brain, as well as his brawn and ammo. He's not a stupid, meat head of a man. Dave No, he is tactical and methodical as well. The last panel on that page is a nice little close up of him, with good use of the shadows. The artwork has equally matched the written storytelling so far. "Let them run, I'll be waiting." Kev That's a great line to end the scene on, for sure. Dave How are you finding re-reading this so far? Kev It's always a pleasure going back to look at this one. Even so soon after reading it again for Max Byrne's 'Mandatory Marvel and DC' podcast. I always find something in it that occurs to me for the first time, or having discussed it with Max, and now yourself, have something pointed out to me that I had missed, or have a different take on things explained to me that I had always assumed were just a certain way. What about yourself? How are you finding it, after all these years? Dave I think it's been a cracking story so far. As I said earlier, the narrative is actually one of the best I have read, in terms of not wasting time unnecessarily. Also, I like the simplicity of it. Had this been written nowadays, there would have been about three or four subplots all going on at the same time, which would have dragged it out, but none of that is in there. The pacing is great as well, as it explodes into the action early and keeps it up at a steady tempo. So far it's been really good and enjoyable. (D) & (K) Next: Prostitution and Gambling. 
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