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by Dave Scrimgeour and Kevin McCluskey   Writer- J.M. DeMatteis Penciller- Mike Zeck Inker- Bob McLeod Letterer- Rick Parker Colourists- Mike Zeck & Ian Tetrault synopsisWith Spider-Man seemingly dead and buried, Kraven continues with his masterplan to replace the web-slinger, to the extent that he unwittingly rescues Mary Jane from a potential mugging at the very least. Meanwhile, Vermin begins to terrorise the streets of New York and claim victims. Yum. Dave Part 2 is from ‘Amazing Spider-Man,’ which was the title you collected back in the day. October of 1987 was certainly a nice little treat of a month for us. Do you remember the time lapse between these issues coming out in the shops, 'cause I'm pretty sure they didn't all come out on the same weekend? Kev No, they didn't. It was spread out over the course of two months across the six titles, if I remember correctly. Dave Certainly a fitting storyline for October, what with the horror elements of the tale. Kev You're not wrong there, man. This issue really leans into the psychological horror elements of the story. Dave It's another cracking cover, but I'm a little disconcerted by Kraven's playboy pose in a thong!!!! Kev Ha, ha! I hadn't thought of his tiny pants being like a thong, but yeh, they wouldn't look out of place on Nicki Minaj. Dave Kraven could be breaking into the entertainment industry by appearing in his first music video. Kev It might be quite a good career move for him. Although, I reckon he might be someone put-off by the debauchery of your modern pop video. See Megan Thee Stallion and Cardi B’s video for ‘W.A.P,’ for example. He says sounding like an old man. Dave I suppose back in ‘87, pop music was a bit simpler. Kev You're not kidding. Although, in saying that, Madonna was stirring shit up even back then. Dave Yeah, I think Kraven would have been more suited to a Madonna video than Kylie, unless he was dancing to ‘I Should Be So Lucky.’ Kev Looking back on it, Madge didn't REALLY start stirring shit until around '89/'90. I can see Kraven in a Kylie video though. They both share a proclivity for small pants.  Nobody puts Spidey in the corner. Dave ‘The Amazing Spider-Man’ logo is the one of Spidey running. It’s a nice little logo. As we discussed earlier, the black costume with the blue shades is really quite a striking costume. Kev Definitely. Man, I miss the corner boxes on Marvel comics. Dave The cover sets the tone for what is an immensely dark and internal journey of the three main characters in this issue; Kraven, Vermin and Mary Jane. Kev For sure. And not a Peter or a Spidey in sight this whole issue. It's an excellent splash page alright, with a nice little bit of foreshadowing for Vermin. Dave The splash page is haunting. It's a cracking drawing, well detailed, and really doesn't leave much to the imagination as to exactly where this story picks up. Nice little touch of the rat in the splash page, and as we see later on, they are always following Vermin around. Kev No, it doesn't leave much to the imagination at all. We pick up pretty much exactly where we left off, by the looks of it. I love how Zeck and McLeod draw Kraven in the Spidey costume. You can immediately tell that it’s not Peter under there, the figure is more muscular, carrying a bit more mass, and not quite as lean as Pete is. Again, we have Kraven flitting between sadness and bursting into fits of laughter. This is not a well man. Dave Plus, his stance has a more menacing air to it than Peter's ever does. He has taken on the pose of a bouncer standing on the doors.  If your name's not down, you're not getting in, you rat bastard.  Just kidding. In you go, Roland. Kev Ha, ha! He really has, hasn't he? This scene here, with the young woman rushing through the New York streets in the rain is excellent. We also get narration from Vermin's perspective here, before he claims her as his victim. Those five widescreen panels of her being dragged into the sewer are incredibly effective. This is certainly horror-inflected, to say the least.  "Well, let the brass bands play and the feet start to pound."  "Well, let the boys all sing and let the boys all shout."  "Well, let the brass bands play and feet go pow, pow, pow."  "So let the boys all sing and let the boys all shout....."  ".....for tomorrow." Dave Yep, it's indulging in its horror elements by having the victim dragged under. I like how after that, it comes straight back to Spidey’s grave. Kev Yeh, they use that scene, not only to introduce Vermin to the story, but through this cut from the young woman to Mary Jane, they also plant the seed in our minds of the threat to Mary Jane and the peril that she will soon find herself in. The grave is definitely the motif again here, however unlike last issue where we had the grave being dug, we now have the rat scurrying around on the fresh soil. Dave It's good writing for Vermin’s narrative, about the perfume being a "mask" to disguise their human odour, and him talking about how much people think they are better than him, but are ultimately wearing masks. Kev Definitely. Particularly considering how he feels people use things such as perfume as an excuse to look down on him. Dave That panel of Vermin in the shadows with the red demonic eyes is great. Proper evil looking.  Ol' Red Eyes Is Back. Kev It looks amazing, doesn't it? Again, they're really pushing the horror element of this story here. And here we have Mary Jane’s perspective as narrator for a bit, with her coming to terms with the fact that her newly minted marriage is far from a normal one. That, and her, apparently not unfounded, fears for Peter’s life every time he leaps out a window to be Spider-Man. Oh, and more rats. Dave Mary Jane is going through some serious doubts and fears in this story. Kev She really is. She's struggling to come to terms with her marriage to a superhero. When she turns and flees, after she’s bludgeoned the rat to death with the heel of her boot, do you think she is a bit disgusted with herself at how violent she was, and how easy she found it to kill a living creature? Dave It's her fears working in overdrive, she can't shake off the rising anxiety in her, and the more she tries to suppress it, the more it keeps rising. So it's maybe a bit of both with the rat killing. Kev Yeh, I suppose it's just her fear overriding her. Dave Just to backtrack ever so slightly, I'm questioning the logic of placing that TV right next to the bed if Pete and MJ are gonna snuggle up in bed to watch it. 'Cause you are looking at a couple of crooked necks after a couple hours of that, judging by the TV's position and the angle it's at. Or do they just sleep on the bottom of the bed? Kev That's a good point actually, yeh. One of them is going to have to look over the other one's head as well. Dave And again, the quick scene cut to Spidey's grave is like the interchange of acts within the story.  Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat on a grave. Kev Right enough, DeMatteis and Zeck are using it for scene transitions. Dave I suppose for MJ, her being the party-girl, her own company is the last thing she really wants, as she probably functions better within company. It's like the worst thing to happen to her is to be all alone, with only her thoughts for company. Kev That's a good point. To go from being the party girl, who actively avoids being in her own company, to a married woman, who due to being the wife of a superhero, is going to be spending a lot of time on her own whilst he's out saving lives, is a massive adjustment for her. We now switch to narration from Kraven’s perspective, as he muses on his desire to not only best “The Spider,” but to become and be better than “The Spider.” But there’s still a duality here, a conflict within himself, a part of his mind that still questions the motivation behind all this. Dave Upon reading this issue again, I think Kraven is a narcissist. And this tirade of internal gibberish that he goes through in this issue, where he always keeps referring to himself, "I am Kraven," suggests he has a high self-opinion of himself, but low self-esteem. Kev I agree. He's a self-loathing narcissist. And the duality of that, and the conflict that arises from it, is a huge theme of this story. He also clearly has unresolved issues with his father, as well as his motherland, and we get more conflicts here. Father, son. East, West. Communism, capitalism. Old, new. Flip sides of coins. All underpinned by fear. Hence, 'Fearful Symmetry.' Dave To put it mildly, he's going bat-shit nuts, fast. He seems to be attaching Spider-Man, unconsciously, to many of his unresolved issues with his father and it is driving him mad. Kev And his self-esteem seems to be completely tied into his ability to best Spidey. Dave Little reference to Franz Kafka "Metamorphosis" with Kraven's jibber-jabber. "Quit your jibber-jabber, fool!" Kev Ha, ha! That’s a good shout with the ‘Metamorphosis’ reference. Yeh, he's going full Mr. T here, with the jibber-jabber. Dave Kraven is locked in his own mental asylum, "his head," and the behaviour just gets more and more out of control and absurd. I'm guessing Kraven had an overbearing father, as he mentions about "the world the spider consumed." He still feels overwhelmed, and the only way he thinks he can beat this is by taking away the world created by "The Spider." Kev Yeh, these are not the actions of a well man. Even down to the way he's lapping his drug potion out of a bowl on the floor, like a dog or a cat.  "Now, would you like me..... to be the cat?" Dave It's great writing by DeMatteis. He has a great understanding of the human condition, and he has layered this story with so many different internal struggles. It's not cheerful reading, one has to say, but it's very compelling. Kev No, it's not your standard, light-hearted, cheerful, action packed Spidey story at all, is it? Kraven seems to see "The Spider" as a metaphor for the crumbling of the Soviet Union and the Communist block, and all the values that were inherent to them. Dave He is clearly blowing the impact of Spidey well out of proportion, as he relates to it, but in the true fashion of a narcissist, he still manages to make it all about himself. Kev That's a good point. He always brings it back around to himself, doesn't he? Dave Yeah. He definitely does. But I quite like how he always brings it all back to himself. This is the fuel to fire his escalating madness. Maybe somebody should have told him to get over himself. Kev Ha, ha! That'd be a quick therapy session. And cheap. Probably not too effective though. Maybe he should've gone on Oprah to see Dr. Phil. Dave And at the end of that, he finally admits that he is afraid. Kev And this is what this story all about, fear. Dave And again, with the cut back to Spidey's grave, the narrative is shifting once more. Brilliant storytelling.  Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat on a graaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave. Kev Yep. And after that, we jump back to Vermin’s perspective, his voice, as we see there is nothing left of the young woman from before but her bones, and that he too is crippled by his fears. His fear of Spider-Man. Dave It is about fear. That's what makes him attack Spidey, his fear reaction. But he probably, up to that point, wasn't consciously aware of it. Kev No. Exactly. He was probably just acting out of instinct. The fight or flight response. Dave Yeah, "finger lickin good." Maybe not the best advert for KFC, but whatever works. Kev Ha, ha! No. I thought that too. That was a Scavenger line in Dragon's Claws as well. When he'd eaten some of the members of the Evil Dead. Dave Right enough. Good ol' Scavenger. Vermin has a very childlike way about him. He even talks like one. Kev He really does. He's kind-of a tragic character. It's almost like he's been bullied and is suffering from PTSD as a result. Dave His reference to Cap as "Captain Flag" is quite amusing. Kev Ha, ha! Yeh. That sounds like a low budget, Poundland version of Captain America. I love those three panels of Vermin sticking his head out of the manhole cover, only to see the spider and retreat back into the sewer in fear. The spider versus the rat is coming. And Vermin doing a cover version of Ozzy Osbourne there, with the biting the head off the rat thing.  "Straight from the sewer. Straight from the sewer."  "I'm coming."  "Nothing can save ya." Dave I know, when his eyes pop wide open in fear, it has a kind-of a cartoonish quality about it. Especially as the panel beforehand is a very sinister, striking image. Kev It's an excellent juxtaposition, isn't it? And it conveys the contradictory nature of Vermin as a character. And now we're back to Mary Jane, but only for a single page this time. DeMatteis and Zeck are upping the pace on her story here. Increasing the drama and the tension. Dave Keeping the rain as a constant adds to the gloominess of the story too. Kev Yeh, it's like The Crow,' or ‘Blade Runner,’ or something. Dave The 80's fashion of the two guys heckling MJ is just....80's. This guy in the shorts is talking about someone in tight-fitting pants? What the hell’s he wearing? Kev Totally. Those are some short shorts, and those socks, pulled up as far as they'll go, they complete the look alright. Dave The other geezer leaning over and rubbing his knees just cracks me up. Talk about over emphasised sleaziness. Kev Ha, ha! He looks like he's doing a Vic Reeves from Shooting Stars to whomever the female guest was that week.  "Who wears short shorts?" Dave I'm pretty sure you would have had a pair of shorts like that when you were about 5 years old. Kev Ha, ha! I probably did, yeh. Maybe he's had them since he was five too. Dave Luckily for him, they still fit. Kev Well, in a manner of speaking they do. Even this short-shorts wearing sleazebag’s opening line to MJ, “Ooo, I think I’m going to die,” yep, you just might, mate. The spectre of death is all over this story.. Dave And again, the clever cut just before this situation escalates, back to Kraven, in the middle of another episode of ‘Looney Tunes.’ At least he has finally admitted that what really is getting to him is that he cannot handle defeat in any shape or form. Kev Yep. Fighting a manifestation of "The Spider" that his mind has created, and admitting that it is fear that is driving him. “.....and I want to magnify that defeat.” His ego will not let this rest. He’s now creating a spider, spirit animal, totem thing, simply because he can’t accept the fact that another man beat him. This idea of a spider totem is something that Strazinsky would run with during his run on Amazing Spider-Man, many, many years later. Dave He's drowning in his own fears and negative emotions. He's a man who cannot feel fulfilled because of his ego. It won't let him. Kev Exactly. His mind is literally drowning in it's own fear-induced manifestation of spiders here. “I see with eyes that pierce time and shadow and falsehood.” “I am Kraven! And I fear nothing!” He does though, doesn't he? Dave Although Spidey takes a little break from appearing in this issue (unless you count the grave shots), all three characters are focused on him. It's enough to give a person a big head. Kev Ha, ha! Yeh, right enough. It almost makes up for his absence. It's also interesting that Kraven refers to the world as a “sewer,” because we then cut back to Vermin. The cuts are quicker now, which adds to the manic feeling of the issue. Dave Then the cut back to MJ, who is probably wishing that she has stayed indoors, despite her restlessness. And her fears are also manifesting slowly, especially when she is caught by the muggers/punks. "I'm dead." The rising fear and panic. Kev Totally. She even says it herself. "What am I doing out here?!" Then the little smirk when she thinks her husband has come to bail her out. The rat running away from the spider at Spider-Man’s grave is on the nose. Of the rat. It's good imagery though. Good visual storytelling. Dave It's interesting how Kraven's method acting approach, which, to be fair, would give Robert DeNiro a good run for his money, in becoming the "essence" of “The Spider,” has managed to initially fool MJ, as his body language and behaviour is very similar to that of Spidey. Certainly when he first lands and attacks. Move over Brando, here comes Kraven.  "Spider-Man, Spider-Man. Does whatever a spider can. Spins a web, for his bed. He's the man, Spider-Man." Kev Yeh, Kraven is brutal with these two punks. Is it his fighting style, which is totally different to Peter’s, that lets MJ know that it isn’t Peter in that costume? That, and the fact that there are no quips.  Illegal blow to the back of the head. Dave It's the brutality of his attacks on them that is the giveaway. Plus, MJ knows Pete so well she could probably spot if something was up and different with him. Also, Kraven seems to have no idea who she is, she's just another random face to him. Although, MJ being saved knowing that wasn't Peter, will no doubt make her internal anxiety worse and now she will be imagining the worst.  Overhand right. Followed by a backfist. What a combination! Kev Definitely. This certainly won't alleviate her fears that her husband is not lying dead somewhere. Yeh, man. That's a great panel. The rain also helps make it feel really dynamic.  Hear me roar. Kev Yeh. Again, the contrast between him claiming, "I am The Spider," followed immediately by MJ's statement, "That wasn't Peter," shows just how Kraven has failed already. It's not the mask, it's not "The Spider," it's the "man" in Spider-Man that makes him Spider-Man. It's Peter that makes Spider-Man who and what he is. Dave I like the panel as Kraven swiftly jumps up the building. "I am The Spider." Dave And now Vermin has found a new path. His emergence from underground signifies he has been reborn to a certain degree, and the panel of him climbing out of the sewer works well with the person in the background in shock dropping the umbrella. Surely by now, in a city of superheroes and villains, this would not be such a surprising occurrence. Or were they just expecting it to be those lean green fighting machines, the Ninja Turtles? Kev Ha, ha! Could be, yeh. Vermin's ready to face his fears and face Spider-Man. Which suits Kraven only too well. Dave I like those two closing panels of Vermin making his way about in the rain on the hunt for food, his appetite rekindled. And the finishing panel, of a close up of Spidey's grave with a spider crawling on it is a nice touch. It finishes off on the same tone as the issue started. Kev Yeh, the spider is literally rising from the grave. Something that we know Peter will be doing soon. Although oddly enough, the next chapter is titled 'Descent.' (D) & (K) Next: 'Descent.' 
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